on referees, whilst I'm sure some don't want to read them, I found reading the auto biographies of the top refs who've retired in recent times quite informative as to dynamics with managers, their colleagues, their bosses etc.

RIP Maurice Allen, Paul Strank Stand season ticket holder block A row F. Lovely chap. Condolences to wife Margaret and family.

Its ok but not as good as the direct boos she had before who was more hands on and didn't pass the buck too often.

Wally already stated at MTM that he doesn’t subscribe to trying to bully and influance the officials. He claimed that it often causes you more problems when you piss them off.

Diddy what is their relationship with this manager like generally?

It was the way it was said to her as it made her feel as if she couldn't say no or she would be in trouble.

Diddy - often these working conditions issues are defined by what may be considered to be “reasonable” or otherwise. If an employee is being directed to carry out duties which aren’t within their contractual remit, this can be extremely problematic - if those duties are “below their pay grade” or too burdensome when they’ve already got tons to do, that isn’t reasonable, as it’s either demeaning their position or potentially could cause them to fail to fulfil their proper duties correctly (which later comes to haunt them when they have their performance management appraisal). If they’re asked to do something that’s “above their pay grade” (not what you’ve indicated in your friend’s case), it can be couched in terms of being developmental (they can add it to their CV and it gets recognised as extra they’ve done to help the company out). When it’s requested rather than directed, it should be done in such a way as the boss explains how grateful they’d be if you could help by filling in for this colleague or whatever the reason is - it should also be remunerated either financially or in kind, for example by giving that member of staff extra time off at some point when it suits the staff member best. Rather than straight refusal, your friend could try the “what’s in it for me?” line, but maybe their boss isn’t the kind to take that very well, in which case it’s time to start job hunting.....

Diddy, I was going to say as usual context is everything. It does come across as a quick escalation from saying you're not happy to a response of you're refusing. The problem is there's a good chance there's something in their contract around covering department work so you'd really have to be able to prove their behaviour is the issue. (I've been in that situation where managing a large team, actually managing the line managers for the team and ending up doing some of the ground work as well when we were short. I challenged that a lot for me and the other managers but it always came back to ultimately the big boss can allocate people as needed).

Lurker...It was the way it was said. My friend who I did work with twice is one of these who gives the extra mile and helps out but now feels being taken advantage of and would have been interesting if she had said yes I am refusing to do it!! Think there are better ways to ask someone if they are refusing to do something that is not in their contract.

Why has no other L1 club taken a punt on Akinde given his record in scoring goals in L2?

Plus I'm sure Walsall would like to know how a tinpot club like ours got away with so much bullshit from the ref in that match end of last season. It possibly isn't as one sided as we think in comparison to teams of a similar influence/standing to us.

Diddy simple answer, no that phrase isn't bullying. How it is said could be bullying. But that question is just a clarification of the situation. Sounds though like it might be how said?

MAD - I'd be very happy that our physio is shouting at refs about him not taking action about a bad foul that caused an injury (e.g. Taylor's v Sutton). What I'm saying is in response to comments previously that seem to only apply to managing the ref during the game, e.g. the Barcham penalty. This issue of managing them outside the game is where I'm coming from as well, I agree but I'd say there is a bigger club picture to it.

Any opinions on this? Was chatting to a friend of mine who is peeved off as her new direct Manager ( As my friend is a Manager too) has said to her that during the busy period she wants her to be answering Sales calls as well as do her own duties. My friend wasn't too happy about this being her busy period too and said she wasn't happy about doing it. Her bosses response was " Are you refusing to do it then?" Doesn't that sort of phrase come under trying to bully someone???

Sorry, just feels as if you are staunchly defending nil's approach and that shouting at the side of the pitch after the event shows that he was at it (wtf, stuart douglas up and shouting? sit down) rather than accept that there is plenty that can be done pre game and via the media. And lets hope W&G do because I've lost count of the amount of fellow 'little fish' that have come here and mugged us over the years by playing the ref.

sorry not a manager, a referee who has a track record of certain behaviour

That's where we won't agree in terms of their jobs being able to change it. What I would still want to understand is what does the club do about it - e.g. my question about did we challenge having Sargenson allocated after that match? As a manager you're not going to change a manager who has a track record of riding the home team, for example, no matter what approach you take.

There are no straws being clutched at that wally has some 'amazing rep' that will make refs change their decision. Its just recognition that he has far more nous than the previous regime and from me at least, a hope that him and hodger will at least get us parity with the likes of fellow tinpoters Accrington.

As said previously a bit of a myth seems to have built up that under the previous regime bad decisions weren't challenged. Not true. As said I've seen Ardley, Cox, Bassey and Douglas all rant about bad decisions. And we constantly raised it post match with authorities and in interviews with outside media.

Hash incompétence - we had similar thing other end a while back where lino called a penalty when ball hit Barcham's hand (50-50 call anyway) about same distance OUTSIDE the area and he was right next to it. 4th official can't say anything to the ref about it - only the lino, who was other side of pitch, could have said it was a penalty, which he'd never have been able to see. And the bench did go mental about it as did our players so sorry but the idea that WD will get it changed is wishful thinking. Ref whose decided that isn't changing it unless one of his mates tells him.

Surely when that happens Hash the 4th official needs to speak to the ref and say what are you doing. It should be a penalty! Hopefully Wally would put more pressure on them if that was to happen, Neal was too soft

What about that blind Bastard ref who gave a free kick when Barcham was fowled about 5 yards inside the box with the ref standing right there without any obstruction? How can that decision be explained?

I agree also about how do some other clubs get better than us but then it may be a mix. Good example, the blatant control of the ball with forearm to score by Branagan for Oxford. But then there's other circumstances, away fans lino and pretty sure he was the guy who watched an Oxford player kick the ball out 3 foot away from him and gave them the throw.

I might be terribly Andy Roberts here, but has anyone made the point that Lurker must have the most inappropriate tag name ever? Or is it just self deprecatory irony?

MAD your moral on first post is my question as well, do we work with them? If not why not. Personally I'm not convinced WD carries any clout that referees will be intimidated by. Its not like we've got Alex Ferguson coming in. But if we're not working with the officials I fail to see how we can expect to change things.